Dark, Fallen and Holy

[Bonnie]

I've noticed that on a lot of websites, if Fallen and Dark Angels are even believed in, they're barely talked to, or if they are, its people trying to convince them to seek redemption. Most Fallen I've spoken with refuse - they believe they fell for the right reasons, and have no wish to really go back to Heaven, for whatever varius reasons they may have.

Dark Angels...are a different matter though. :/ We never actually took part in the act of Falling. Most people think Dark Angels are the children of Fallen, some others think, however, that Dark Angels are sort of like a different race of Angel. Yet, even those with such a belief try to redeem us, which I find considerably interesting.

People try to redeem Dark Angels, yet, if we did not participate in the act of Falling, what is there to redeem?

[Samielleus Prince]

Pfft it is my philosophy that "holy" and "dark" are a set od sencibilities, like The Republicans and the democrats. Both think they're right and both try show eachother "the light" as it were. thankfully I'm an independant and you'll find that many holy and dark angels are. I could name some famous dark angels that are in my astral buddy list I don't sell my soul to any affilitation. I just belive what I belive and I don't try to opress others with my opinions.

[azakel]

I think the Holy that don't talk to the Fallen or Dark are filled with human thought from being in these bodies for to long. I don't think any of us wrong for what we did or didn't do up there or where ever. What happened, happened for a reason.

[redeemer143]

I agree with you azakel. Everything happens for a reason.
To the original question, I don't think that dark angels have anything they need to redeem, unless the have chosen a very dark path and then decide that they WANT to turn around. Why try to redeem those that don't want the "help"? It doesn't make sense *shrugs* I know that I have, in the past, wanted to "help" those that didn't need or want me to, but I never even tried. Simply because I knew it would be pointless. Either way, I love my brothers and sisters, no matter what path they have chosen.

[Samielleus Prince]

And on the opposite end of the coin, we mild mannered Holy angels get the worst rap for doing that when not all of us go around like Jahovas whitnesses and try to convert people it also gets loney, this is the first time I've been on an Angelkin/astral forum (not counting mysticwicks since its more geared to general paganess) where I wasn't the only Holy angel around. Let me tell you the persucution street goes both ways xD.

[terro]

Everything that I've ever found to sound valid supports that the Fallen cannot be redeemed even if they wanted to. The reason is that Morning Star bears the responsibility of the Fallen for his dissent. They cannot be forgiven, not a one of them until he is forgiven or destroyed.

I also am aware that they have come into four factions. One that is still loyal to Morning Star and believes they Fell for the right cause, one is still loyal to Morning Star but wants to go home. One wants to go back so badly that they will kill Morning Star to go home, and the last faction wants to reign and feels Morning Star is not the strong leader he was and wants to destroy him and take leadership.

Dark Angels? I've always known the children of Fallen to likewise be Fallen, they have made no Fall-worthy transgression, they are still Fallen and are barred from going home.

Again these are just my beliefs and findings.

[redeemer143]

I am what you would call a dark angel, and though I may not have been told that I can go home, I feel it. In every fiber of my being, I know that when my duties are finished(whatever they may truly be), I will be allowed home.

As for your classifications of fallen. I think is as close as I have ever heard it said. (haha heard it said read, whatever)

[Bonnie]

I also don't believe that Fallen can yet be forgiven, but as far as Dark Angels go, I think I may have to post another thread, as to not get off topic. I can say I just feel it that I'm Dark. Not Fallen, not Holy, but Dark.

I feel no allegiance to any form of higher being, I feel no fear of any other Angels, just respect for Lucifer. I would have no qaulms with going against either side, though I prefer to just stay out of any quarrels altogether.

[terro]

This is my reason for holding only two classifications. There are Angels and Fallen Angels. Angels are those who are still within or have access to the realm widely known as Heaven and are in the service of the Creator. Fallen are those who are not. Whether or not they hold loyalty to anything else, they are barred from Heaven and cut off from the Creator. What you seem to refer to as "Dark" Angels would have less a feeling of loyalty because they have never known that connection, so they are quite fine with living without it. This does not however change their status as being Fallen Angels.

[redeemer143]

I feel I must argue that point, simply because I do have an allegiance to heaven. Even though I may have been born outside of heavens gates and from two fallen....doesn't mean I agree with my parents. At one point, yes ....I didn't know any better. However, things have changed and I know where my heart resides.

See, I respect Lucifer in his perseverance, but I pity him because, in his hate for humanity and his stubbornness, he removed him from God.(Don't get me wrong, I know humans have COMPLETELY messed up way too many times, but it isn't my place to judge.) I pray for the day that Lucifer returns home. (only God knows if that will happen, but still I pray.) No one wants to have to endure Hell, but his hatred sustains him. My heart breaks every time I think of him to such depths, so I'm done for now.

[terro]

Humans are the small picture really, especially in relation to the rest of existence. Feeling allegiance, fine, respecting Morning Star, fine... what I'm saying is that as the offspring of two Fallen, one would never have known what it feels like to be connected to the Creator as an Angel who hadn't Fallen would.

So while I see and understand your point, I misconstrued it. What I meant was more accurately that you would not have known that connection, and thus would be unaffected by the separation (which generates usually a loathing for the Creator or a need to go back)

[redeemer143]

Ok, that makes much more sense. You're right, I have no idea what it means to be separated from the Creator. I long to know what it is that fallen are now missing. As a dark angel we feel only the underlying love from God, we don't register it the same way as a "regular" angel would, we haven't seen/felt its full potential, What it means to be surrounded and filled with his light. I want that.... In a way, I envy those of you that were there, fallen or not. At least you know/have known it.

[terro]

that whole "better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all" thing, except replace love with the connection to one's creator.

[redeemer143]

Technically, one in the same...

[Samielleus Prince]

Hmmm I've been thinking a lot lately. How do we know that Lucifer fell becuase he disagreed with God, or stopped loving him? How do we know that was what God asked of him, in order to fulfill his role to god? Just posing the ideas becuase honestly, none of us will know for sure especially if it is between him and God.

I pose these questions becuase I myself have been thinking a lot on it lately. While I myself am a holy angel, love god and know his love, I still relate better to "fallen" angels. I feel they are no different from holy angels, no different other than they have different life views than I do. They're still angels. This fact bothers me (that my "own kind" has such contempt for me) and yet I myself am not fallen. If I found out tomorrow that I'm really fallen (which would make no sence given my love of God and closeness to him) I really wouldn't care. I think part of the reason, perhaps, a lot of Holy angels despise me so much is becuase I'm not fallen despite my position on things. "Morning Star" as he is called was one of my closest friends, and still is. My friendship with him does nothing to sever my love of God or humanity (though humanity loves to push my buttons) so I suppose it may be my place to love and befriend anyone, regaurdless of thier opinions or status.

All I know is I'm not fallen, and a lot of holy angels are hopping mad about it.